My concern in following through with the pursuit of B.O.'s Certificate of Live Birth (C.O.L.B.) is not my concern with the C.O.L.B.'s authenticity or the chance that there is anything wrong in it. Rather, I am chiefly concerned that the state boards of election or the federal election commission should do due diligence on requirements to hold office, to include this constitutional one of natural citizenship. Criminal records, drivers' license information, birth certificate and similar kinds of identification should be collected by the state boards of election and the federal government and should be available for all citizens to review. We live in an age of identity theft and electronic scams. It is foolish to run an electoral system that takes at face value candidates' claims as to who they are. Even if the birth certificate on the Daily Kos and other pro-Obama websites is fair and true there should be a way for a citizen to review a certified copy in person without resorting to a website or bloggers' work-shed analyses. As well, Mr. Obama should have simply told his staff to authorize any and all requests for information to the Hawaii Health Department.
The main point is that the states or the federal government need develop a responsive audit system, not whether there is anything wrong with Mr. Obama's birth certificate. I'm puzzled that there is no system in place to permit a citizen to obtain identification information. Is our government run by marks, by trusting fools eager to be conned? If the state and federal governments cannot run an election properly, what can they do?
Drake, a scientist and attorney, has e-mailed me about his concerns that TechDude's analysis is inaccurate. But I don't think that's the right concern. The only chance of improving due diligence requirements for candidates is now. Public pressure must be intense because politicians don't like scrutiny any more than do Corporate America, Wall Street or Tony Soprano.
Drake writes:
>Dr. Langbert:
I have been trying to carefully follow this Obama COLB issue from the beginning. At first, I was convinced that a forgery had in fact been demonstrated. However, as time has gone on, I am becoming more and more skeptical. As one who has a computer science degree and is minimally competent at graphics, I have yet to see any verifiable and reproducible information from Techdude that actually indicates a forgery. This is especially significant concerning the claim that the name of the original bearer of the certificate (Maya, apparently) could be discerned from the image. Techdude has yet to post step by step instructions by which any reasonably skilled person in graphics could reproduce his findings.
Instead, what seems to be happening is that Techdude makes his claims and, as "support" for them, goes into laborious detail using very technical language and images with boxes and numbers. Most people simply skim these explanations, regarding them as beyond their expertise, and simply accepting his ultimate conclusions. Yet, when other non-pseudonymous graphic experts actually take the time to sludge through his explanations, they find them vacuous and insufficient to point toward Techdude's ultimate conclusions. Although I in no way regard myself as a graphics expert, I have reached the same conclusion when I have actually taken the time to go through his dense analysis. At the end, I ask myself, "Is there something I'm missing?" Yet, for a significant period of time, I have simply assumed that the missing analysis is there and Techdude has either not yet posted it or I am simply unable to understand it. As time goes on, I am becoming convinced that nearly everyone on the Atlas blog and on the TexasDarlin' blog is doing the same thing. Each person thinks to himself or herself, Well, I don't understand it, but it looks impressive and very technical, and all of these other people are convinced, so apparently his explanations have satisfied them. The result is that each person simply assumes that the others understand and have independently verified. It's like the free rider problem in economics.
Dr. Langbert, I'm writing you personally because, having read your blog, it is apparent that you are an intelligent man and a respectable scholar. I believe that we are similar in that we are both respectable professionals who are careful in their analysis and not simply internet hotheads. I myself am both a computer scientist and a lawyer. I am concerned that we are possibly being hoodwinked. I do not think it wise to try to bring an allegation of forgery in either the media, the political process, or the law until there is sufficient proof of forgery. Although I personally would very much like to see Obama disqualified from the Presidency (as I find his policy positions repugnant, to say the least), I can honestly say that neither Techdude nor anyone else has sufficiently shown forgery. Unlike others, I am in no way declaring the authenticity of the COLB, but neither has it been proven in authentic. If this email registers with you, I could go into more careful detail as to the holes I see and the seeming psuedoscience of it all.
While it might be argued that if Obama ultimately produces a physical copy as a result of this campaign you are waging, then there will be no harm done, I respectfully disagree. If the MSM were to actually pick this story up and Obama were to produce an authentic physical copy identical to the picture, and the analysis on which you and others are relying were to be exposed as junk science, then the result is far worse than having never brought up the story. Those who opposed Obama on this ground would look like idiots, hurting the credibility of his opposition. Moreover, as an associate professor who actually has a career at stake in terms of intellectual integrity, I honestly fear what the consequences might be for your career if this whole thing flops as badly as I fear it might. I myself am operating under a psuedonymn (Drake is not my real name) for this very same reason. I don't need my reputation to be tarnished or my publications not to be taken seriously as the result of this.
Regardless, I am not trying to tell you what to do. My concerns are simply that I am beginning to fear more and more that this is a hoax, and I worry that it may ultimately aid Obama. It seems to me that you are the most intellectually respectable and credentialed role player in this, and therefore I thought I'd email you about my concerns, both out of interest as to your thoughts regarding my criticism and a slight concern for your career.
I look forward to (hopefully) hearing back from you. Kind regards,
Drake
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4 comments:
It getting a lot worse (for the blogging community, that is):
The Texasdarlin blog is now frantically reporting:
*Breaking* Barry Soetoro’s Birth Certificate in Republican Hands
Yeah right - AS IF Hawaii issues a second birth record for Bazza.
According to their latest delusions young Bazza went off to Indonesia at a 5 or 6 year old and came back as a 9 year old and got a NEW fictitious birth record issued in Hawaii which converted him into "Barry Soetoro".
Young Bazza then promptly forgets his new name and spends the rest of his life using his the old one, which (for the CULT of the COLB) is a big no-no.
In the real world, which is far away from their La-La-Land -- even if the illegal (second) certification by Hawaii was true, it doesn't matter one iota to anything, but they have imagined that they've got themselves some sort of incriminating scoop.
It makes ya wonder what the hell they're going to tell lies about next!
Ray
Ray, I think you are missing the point in all of this.
Hawaii quite possibly DID seal his original COLB and issue a second at his Mother's request, indicating Lolo as BHO's new father. When BHO was adopted by Lolo, Indonesian law would have taken precedence over U.S.law, making him an Indonesian citizen. Indonesia does NOT recognize U.S dual citizenship. IF, remember I stated it was MORE than just the COLB, he used his Indonesian passport in 1981, he would have been an adult. The use of that passport would be considered by the U.S. as "acceptance" of his Indonesian citizenship. His actual birth in or out of the U.S. would be a moot point. The U.S. would have considered his use of that passport, as an adult, to be an acceptance of his Indonesian citizenship. Since they do not recognize dual citizenship with us, it would be considered he had renounced his U.S. citizenship. IF...here we go again....he had made NO adult action which might have been construed as an acceptance of Indonesian citizenship, then he "MIGHT", and that's a BIG "might", have been able to claim he had never renounced his citizenship here, only his Step-Dad and Mom had. That is why so much more documentation is necessary, and this MUST be investigated by the MOST appropriate agency!
HOPEFULLY, when they get there, his "sealed" COLB will state WHERE he was born. His Mom may have only registered him as being born, but it may not have been in Hawaii. She was ONLY 18! We are having a difficult enough time sorting this out NOW! I would hardly expect that at 18, possibly single, she would have known that having her baby outside of the U.S. did NOT make him an automatic citizen. Most of us are just finding out now that she would have had to be 21 to do that! It is distinctly possible that his birth was only registered based on her notion that her citizenship made him one. And the birth announcement makes NO mention of where he was born. Gram and Grandpa may have had the announcement published for all we know. It really means nothing.
The American public are making it clear, they want answers! Article II is powerful. John Jay and the Founding Fathers recognized the need for it. I respect their decision to include it in the Constitution, and I believe it is as relevant today as they deemed it to be then.
mairi wrote:
Ray, I think you are missing the point in all of this.
Hawaii quite possibly DID seal his original COLB and issue a second at his Mother's request, indicating Lolo as BHO's new father.
That sort of scenario is extremely rare. People usually just have names changed. Most don't even know that a birth record can be legally falsified, but if DID happen it would have been no big deal then or now. Obama wouldn't throw away his whole career and go to jail for defrauding the donors of money. That is preposterous in the extreme. An absolutely crazy notion.
When BHO was adopted by Lolo, Indonesian law would have taken precedence over U.S.law, making him an Indonesian citizen.
Repeating that endlessly cannot make it true. As I keep telling you, Indonesian law prohibits adoption once a child reaches 5 years (which Obama had).
Indonesia does NOT recognize U.S dual citizenship.
Once again you're repeating stuff which is totally irrelevant and impossible. Only Obama and Congress can cancel his U.S. ccitizenship.
IF, remember I stated it was MORE than just the COLB, he used his Indonesian passport in 1981, he would have been an adult. The use of that passport would be considered by the U.S. as "acceptance" of his Indonesian citizenship.
It was impossible for him to get an Indonesian passport as a child and even of he DID ask for one as an adult it would make no difference to his eligibility to stand for the Presidency. Like I said before he could have a passport for every country in the world and still be eligible to stand.
His actual birth in or out of the U.S. would be a moot point. The U.S. would have considered his use of that passport, as an adult, to be an acceptance of his Indonesian citizenship.
Like I keep saying over and over and over and over again - only Obama or Congress can cancel his citizenship - and neither of them have.
Since they do not recognize dual citizenship with us, it would be considered he had renounced his U.S. citizenship.
We've been through THIS before as well. Indonesian law is not relevant in the U.S.
IF...here we go again....he had made NO adult action which might have been construed as an acceptance of Indonesian citizenship, then he "MIGHT", and that's a BIG "might", have been able to claim he had never renounced his citizenship here, only his Step-Dad and Mom had.
It doesn't matter. No one except Obama and Congress can cancel his citizenship.
That is why so much more documentation is necessary, and this MUST be investigated by the MOST appropriate agency!
No more documentation is necessary. He merely needs to show his COLB to the appropriate authority. He probably did it in June 2007.
HOPEFULLY, when they get there, his "sealed" COLB will state WHERE he was born.
There won't BE any sealed COLB.
His Mom may have only registered him as being born, but it may not have been in Hawaii.
That's not possible. Th Health Dept reported his birth a few days later when his mother may still have been in hospital in Hawaii.
She was ONLY 18!
Eighteen was virtually an adult then.
We are having a difficult enough time sorting this out NOW!
There's nothing to sort out. You're just listening to SMEARS. It's all lies.
I would hardly expect that at 18, possibly single, she would have known that having her baby outside of the U.S. did NOT make him an automatic citizen.
He wasn't born outside the U.S. He was born in a hospital in Hawaii and has a COLB to prove it, plus a newspaper notice plus witnesses other evidence if a court required it.
Most of us are just finding out now that she would have had to be 21 to do that!
She had university to attend. Obama Snr. had university to attend. She was pregnant and wouldn't be travelling far. Her parents wouldn't have LET her go. She didn't have anywhere to go.
It is distinctly possible that his birth was only registered based on her notion that her citizenship made him one. And the birth announcement makes NO mention of where he was born.
The birth notices were ONLY for births in Hawaii.
Gram and Grandpa may have had the announcement published for all we know.
We know that the Health Dept placed the notices of all births (in batches).
It really means nothing.
It means your speculation is wrong.
The American public are making it clear, they want answers!
All they have to do is ask the appropriate authority.
Ray
I had posted this at our earlier debate site, but this is easier:
Ray, "Nuts & Bolts". "We the people" in the matter of BHO are also "we the jury". A claim has been brought, and the jury is awaiting the expert witnesses to provide evidence beyond any reasonable doubt, so that a just verdict may be rendered. It is possible for this to happen in ANY election, it just so happens, it is THIS ONE!
Some personal things that MIGHT surprise you. I consider myself to be conservative, I have never voted Libertarian, and, the ONLY candidates I have ever "pounded the pavement" for, (there have been several) have ALL been Democrats! Go figure! I surprised myself when I came to that realization today! I would LOVE to see Colin Powell and Bobby Jindal on a POTUS and VP ticket together! I don't think Bobby would become Democrat for the festivities, so I would think they would have to choose either Republican, ( I would vote for Colin no matter WHAT ticket he ran on!) or Libertarian! WOO HOO! Wouldn't THAT ticket bring the Libertarian party into their own!
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